Nols

[Refrigerator]

Originally Posted by catspa

This is so true. And part of thinking is considering the possibility of a bear attack (in Alaska, of all places) and your options should it happen.

If NOLS has a policy of denying students the means of self-defense, I'd call that a big hole in their thinking.

Parker

yep...this is why I don't hike with organized groups in Alaska.....I do it myself with a 44 magnum straped on my thigh.

[catspa]

When I was a kid, our "bear gun" was an old M12 Winchester with an extended magazine. Every 6 months or so, my dad would stand me up in front of a stump or a riverbank with it and make me blow through 6 rounds of 12 gauge slugs as fast as I could go. Then he'd say, "Son, you're a good boy, and it'd be a shame to lose ya to a bear. But don't disgrace us by leaving any shells in the gun. Keep on shooting right up until he eats ya."

Talked to an old boy up in Kodiak who survived a bear attack some years ago, but it carved him up bad. He said it happened so fast he didn't even have time to raise his rifle, much less fire a shot.

Parker

[ponderosa]

I read a lot about the bear incident when it happened. The kids were all carrying spray, but the attack happened so quickly they weren't able to use it. IMO, they wouldn't have had time to use a gun either. I think the kids did a terrific job responding to the attack correctly, caring for those who were injured, setting up an emergency camp, and effecting their rescue quickly. I'm sure their NOLS training had a great deal to do with their excellent response to the situation. It's also worth noting that NOLS has been taking kids into backcountry Alaska for 40 years, and this was the first bear incident. That's a pretty great record really. It's impossible to completely eliminate the risk from wilderness experiences, but everything I've read about this incident, and about NOLS in general, leaves me very impressed with their program.
This is one of the most detailed articles I've seen about that incident, if anyone is interested in knowing more about it:

Alaska bear attack: NOLS kids were well-prepared for sow grizzly, cub | Alaska Dispatch

[catspa]

Ponderosa, after reading that article, I'm impressed with the kids. Sounds like they did the best they could with a bad situation, and nobody died.

Parker

[ppine]

catspa,

I used to take field crews in the outdoors on some very rigorous trips up to 2 weeks. I have worked with many NOLS instructors and graduates. They are very sturdy and dependable group. The women were especially impressive.

[catspa]

I'm particularly susceptible to sturdy and dependable women myself.

Parker

[ppine]

This a good discussion. NOLS people spend a lot of time out there in some really remote country. We should all remember to make some noise when we are ou t there in the thick stuff so there are no surpirises at close range.

The only people who sneak around quietly in the bush, and say things like "I hope we see a bear" in my experience, are the ones who have not seen one before.

[catspa]

I always say that. "I hope we see a bear... before he sees us!"

Parker

[Pathfinder1]

Hi...


More info on NOLS bear attack...

The Alaska Dispatch (outdoors) of March 27 has an extremely interesting Part 1 of their report on what happened. Poor placement and quantity of bear sprays being carried; medical kits not set up for such injuries; party immediately scattered, rather than grouping together; etc.

Super interesting.

[ponderosa]

Here is the new report on the incident, in two parts:
Report Details 2011 Alaska Bear Attack on NOLS Students | Alaska Dispatch

Alaska Bear Attack: How Could NOLS Students Have Avoided Grizzly Attack? | Alaska Dispatch

After reading this new info, it doesn't seem to me that the kids were as well prepared for hiking in grizzly habitat as was reported initially. They evidently panicked, scattered and ran when they first encountered the bear. That is an understandable response, but the wrong one. Perhaps more practice scenarios before their unsupervised hike would have helped them to be better prepared to respond correctly. It's extremely disappointing to me that NOLS provided a group of 7 hikers with only 3 cans of bear spray, and that none of the kids carrying the spray had it in a location that was immediately accessible (two carried it inside their packs, and the other carried it in a side pocket). None of the kids made any attempt to get the spray until after the bear had left the area. The 2nd part of the report indicates that after review of this incident, NOLS has determined it will have NEW policies of carrying bear spray accessible in a hip holster instead of inside a backpack, and that they will BEGIN to include practice deploying the spray as part of their training. I can't believe those weren't already standard protocol. That's a real failure on the part of NOLS, in my opinion.

To their credit, it appears that the kids did an outstanding job of first aid after the attack was over, even though their first aid kits weren't really adequate for the injuries they had. They were able to improvise and provide good life-saving care to the hurt boys.