Search and rescue

JimBarb · 11-30-2010, 08:16 AM

A local news story tells of two fellas that went "out of bounds" on a local mountain while hiking, resulting in the Search and Rescue boys having to go and find them and bring them in.

There's a debate going on about just 'who' should pay for these rescues, because the hikers went out of bounds intentionally. It wasn't an accident that lead them to being where they were found, they walked themselves into that mess.

So I'm curious: in that scenario, do you think it's fair that the rescued be held to account for the coast of saving them?

waverider365 · 11-30-2010, 01:37 PM

I live close to a popular hiking area in my state and constantly have helicopters coming on an average of once a month to assist someone who's lost or hurt so I do think it's fair in regards to those that are going off track.
After all even a ride in a ambulance is charged to the patients bill, why would this be different.

Refrigerator · 11-30-2010, 05:52 PM

This is who I use when I do a technical Trip.
I also use SPOT and have a Iridium Phone with me.

www.Globalrescue.com

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

Itchy_Ivy · 11-30-2010, 08:05 PM

Refrigerator this is great information, and it is great that you are such a conscious hiker. I do believe that if you do it intentionally without being prepared you should pay for it. My mom was just charged $2,000 for an ambulance ride because she had chest pains. At the time, she did not have insurance. I can only imagine what search and rescue costs.

Tired_Sneakers · 11-30-2010, 08:12 PM

I don't understand how people could put themselves in danger on purpose. I bet that they thought they could handle it, but even experience hikers know how important is to be prepared, and more so, how important it is to not take foolish chances.

SAR Guy · 11-30-2010, 09:22 PM

The search for, or rescue of, someone in peril is among the most humanitarian of acts.
It is recognized that, to the extent possible, individuals and communities have a moral obligation to aid those in danger, regardless of any legal obligation.

lifesaving action must take precedence and political, economic, jurisdictional or other such factors must remain secondary when dealing with lifesaving matters. Authorities with responsibility for SAR and SAR organizations can not allow cost reimbursement to delay response to any person in danger or distress.

A perceived or actual belief that the subject of a SAR mission will be billed for the lifesaving actions undertaken on their behalf must not delay or interfere with a timely call for help. Such delays can, at the minimum, cause further danger to the person in peril and, at the maximum, place their life in jeopardy. Delays can place SAR personnel in extreme danger and unnecessarily compound and extend the length of the SAR mission.

Because of these factors, and to eliminate the fear of being unable to pay for having one’s life saved, SAR services should be rendered to persons in danger or distress without subsequent costrecovery from the person(s) assisted.

The mission of SAR organizations is to save lives, not just the lives of those who can afford to pay the bill. As such, methods and means should be developed and used that diffuse the cost of humanitarian SAR operations among the many, allowing anyone to reasonably expect emergency aid without regard to their circumstances.

Now that dosent mean that we as searchers dont get a little frustrated at some of the down right "Stupid Things" some have done. But first and foremost, We are volunteers with a great love of the outdoors, and that of what we do. For me as a ropes team member. Its a great excuse for me to get to climb the Mountain, or ?.

If its in your blood, Its a thrill to get a call at 2:00 am and I get to do what I love best. Search. Its a hunt, gathering of evidence, tracking, I know this might sound strange. But its a great time with your fellow members, and a chance to execute the very skills that we train for....

OK, 2:00am isnt always that thrilling. But you get my point.

In December of last year we lost three young climbers here on Mt Hood. we We recovered the body of one climber the first day, and then the weather set in on the mountain. the search lingered on for a week. Cost became a topic of the local and national news channels as the National Gaurd's Blackhawk Helo's were utilized in the search. What no one ever seams to say (as it dosent make for a sensational story) is a simple fact.

Our National Guard Pilots are "Required" to log minimum flight hours per month. and as one of the Pilots on that mission stated, " When you do this everyday, not unlike someone driving the same drive every morning and evening, It gets pretty boring. So the oppurtunity to not fly the same run up the coastline, and to go somewhere esle and to get to use our training and tools is priceless. and is logged as flight/training hours.

This is time they would of spent anyway, only doing it in a mock circumstance.

all the best.

Bassale28 · 12-01-2010, 02:14 PM

This is an interesting debate and there are two sides to most issues. I fully agree with SAR Guy's points that you provide services first without regard to affordability. Most of these organizations exist and are funded to provide emergency services not only for lost hikers but often for missing children or after major natural disasters.

On the other hand, it does seem ridiculous when these services are abused. The last time I hiked in the Grand Canyon I was talking to a park ranger when a call came in for a canyon rescue. Some day hikers had gone down the Bright Angel trail insisting they were in shape and had taken all the precautions they had been told about. When they got down to Indian Springs they wanted the helicopter to fly them out because they had seen enough and didn't feel like walking back to the rim. Their attitude was clearly that the SAR people were part of the park's free transportation system. I guess these sort of situations fall into the same category as 911 calls asking the dispatcher to recommend a good local restaurant.

SAR Guy · 12-01-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassale28

I fully agree with SAR Guy's points that you provide services first without regard to affordability. Most of these organizations exist and are funded to provide emergency services not only for lost hikers but often for missing children or after major natural disasters.

On the other hand, it does seem ridiculous when these services are abused.

It is why we exist. We dont have the occation to rescue many folks but once. and those (like the grand Canyon folks) once returned to base, will get a stern warning from the official incident commander.

We do have the occation to "Re-Rescue" some pretty avid outdoorsman once in a while. But they are and/or were doing everything correct.

Mother nature is a fickle friend, and she desides the rules each and everytime you set foot within her offerings.

Cannot say it enough... "BE PREPARED".

Its alot easier to be prepared and tell someone your plans, than it is to be lost without proper supplies to survive, and get you thru until we get the call and can respond. even then, if it isnt obvouis where you were (general Location), and how far you traveled. it may be a day or two before we locate you after we respond, depending on conditions.

Didnt say you would be comfortable, but you will survive.

So, if your out and you finaly figure out your in trouble, STAY PUT.

All the best.

le Metis · 12-01-2010, 09:21 PM

Well said SAR guy....and spot on...

Sometimes people get in over their heads, other times there are those that don't know that they are getting in over their heads.

As an example, a number of years back we lost a guide at the head of Webster creek in Maine due to an asthma attack, even though he had been medically cleared to work in remote areas.

Another time, was when we were guide training and running canoes through the Grinstone rapids on the East Branch when the lead boat flipped, oil canning behind the paddlers. We were able to self rescue, but for a few moments it wasn't looking good for those two....

Bassale28 · 12-03-2010, 08:50 AM

I wish I had a dollar for everytime I started a trek with blue skies and sunny weather only to have hail, lightning and severe storm activity only hours later. BE Prepared is the best advice you can give anyone.

There is a modern push on with hiking to do the minimalist thing and carry as little as you can. That may make the hike a bit easier but if something goes wrong the outcome might not be so nice. I tend to carry way more stuff than I need and unfortunately have had to use some of the emergency supplies on more than one occassion. I just consider it cheap insurance and a good workout. Beats a treadmill.