Colorado Massacre

[Greatoutdoors]

I am sure that everyone has heard about THIS story by now. Such a tragedy that so many innocent people were killed by one lunatic. The story I linked to was last updated around 10pm Friday night, and it looks like they are still a long way away from being able to get into the "alleged" gunman's apartment.

 

[Lorax]

I'm glad they caught the guy alive. This way they study this freak and figure out what causes people to snap like this.

I say once done, they should put him in a cell with that Loughner guy who shot up AZ, leaving them unfed with nothing in the cell but a rusty dull butterknife. Let them eat each other.

 

[JeepThrills]

I was wondering why they haven't sent one of those bomb robots in, but I guess they aren't sure how big of an explosion there might be if those wires get tripped. Since he told the police the apartment was rigged, I wonder if there are actually bombs in there or if he just made it look like it.

 

[CozInCowtown]

***THIS*** says there are definatel IEDs in there and the idiot has a background in organic chemistry.
DC

 

[campclose]

Sick isn't it! Makes you wonder! This guy looked like a normal guy from his pictures. I can't imagine how anyone could do anything like this. I thought they already took care of his place? He had it "boobytrapped".

 

[Pathfinder1]

Hi...


Certainly was a horribly tragic experience for those directly involved, and for many who were involved in other ways.

I'd hate to be the lawyer representing him...!!

The media will thrash this one out for quite a while. (And keep our minds away from the pres. campaigns).

 

[ppine]

I am sick about this one. It is the price we pay for a society where anyone can buy guns. We have more freedom and less freedom because of it.

 

[CozInCowtown]

He is a registered democrat and active OWS supporter.....didn't guess that one did ya'?

 

[Boboque]

Honestly, my first thought was that if someone had a "concealed to carry" permit and had their gun on them, they could have stopped him before he killed so many. In that case there wouldn't have been a trial to worry about and he wouldn't have been a burden on the taxpayers. Just my opinion of course and I know a lot don't agree but things are getting bad out there.

 

[Grandpa]

The concealed carry issue has been discussed on other forums. Would you take a shot in a smoke filled dark room with 100's of people scurrying around? (I would if I had a clear shot but this dude was wearing enough body armor to stop most concealed carry weapons.) Aurora as well as Denver and the rest of the Denver area all have "no concealed carry" laws despite Colorado issueing them. The theater also had a gun ban sign on the door, so any citizen interaction to this guy would have resulted in as much trouble as he is in.

 

[Greatoutdoors]

I don't go places where guns aren't welcome so I guess I won't be visiting Denver anytime soon. I also would have taken the shot if I had one. If someone on the front rows had been armed once he started going deeper into the theater they would have had a shot. I know he was well-protected, but a well placed shot is still going to knock you down even if it didn't penetrate. What a wonderful time for this to happen with all of the debate about the UN Arms treaty right now.

 

[Lorax]

I consider my CCW as a last resort effort. My first order of business in chaos is to get clear of the area. If I can't get away, then retreat enough to take a defensive stand or position.
Would I have shot back? I don't know, as I usually obey the laws on these things and probably wouldn't have carried. You see......that's why I've earned the right to my permit. For being a law abiding citizen. Criminals and whackos don't follow the laws. Criminals will always have guns and guns where they are not allowed.

I have been in a theater that had a small fire once when I was 11 or so. I saw mass chaos. It was something I'll never forget and a lesson in how humans react and think in times of distress.
Add some of that same chaos with tear gas and a high volume of gunfire and I'm not exactly sure how anyone would react, myself included. All I know is that I'd like to keep the option of self protection and shouldn't lose my right to do so because of the actions of others that are stupid or insane.

 

[Boboque]

You are correct, Lorax. I wouldn't have taken a shot unless I had a clear line of sight and in that situation it may not have been possible. If they had a "no weapons" sign up, I wouldn't have had mine on me either. But, if wishes were horses, etc., etc. It is just heartbreaking to think that we can't even enjoy a simple pleasure now without having to worry about some nut job killing you or your loved ones.

 

[Theo]

I know exactly how I would have reacted in that situation if I had been there and had my handgun with me; Feets, don't fail me now!

Seriously, trying to pick out a viable target in that environment would be a challenge to the Delta force and they train for that.

 

[Lorax]

It comes down to situational awareness. My wife used to laugh at me because I was particular where I sit in restaurants and would always take the view facing the door. I would also take a few moments to scan where the exits are. She would chuckle and say, "Are you all settled in now?"
I try to avoid crowded places and especially malls nearing the holiday season. I'm not anti-social, just aware of what's around me. It's not that I frequent places with so many people anyway, but when I do, I try to be aware of what's going on all around me.

My permit, and the responsibility/ethics it carries heightens that situational awareness. One tends to avoid any situation that wold escalate or put one's life in any kind of danger when carrying.

 

[oldsarge]

Well said Lorax! In today's world people need to understand that situational awareness is a necessity. There are so many variables that come into play here. Hind sight is 20/20, you can train all your life for different scenarios, but when the action starts it's never the way you perceived it. Good does not always prevail, there are time when we get our noses bloodied and this was one of those times. This guy planned his attack well. Took away peoples vision with smoke or gas and then hit them swiftly and violently. No matter how many people could have been armed and tried to stop this guy, the media would have played it against the pro gun lobbyist. Who knows how many people could have been killed by return fire from others. But the way I see it, I'd rather die fighting then hiding, even if by accident by the hands of those I'm trying to save.

I can't wait to hear what comes out about this guy's reasoning for his attack. What I really hate is that this will be carried on for months or even years through the courts as some lawyer will be trying to defend this scum. As I see it, he is clearly guilty and should receive the death penalty as soon as possible. Make it a clear statement that when you do stuff like this, you pay the ultimate price. No time in jail for a bunch of silver tongued liberal lawyers to soften the impact of this attack over time. Instead of tax payers money paying to keep this guy in jail, direct the money towards the family's who lost loved ones to pay for burial costs. Everything this guy owns should be auctioned off, his assets seized and distributed among the family's.

 

[JeepThrills]

It comes down to situational awareness. My wife used to laugh at me because I was particular where I sit in restaurants and would always take the view facing the door. I would also take a few moments to scan where the exits are. She would chuckle and say, "Are you all settled in now?"
I try to avoid crowded places and especially malls nearing the holiday season. I'm not anti-social, just aware of what's around me. It's not that I frequent places with so many people anyway, but when I do, I try to be aware of what's going on all around me.

My permit, and the responsibility/ethics it carries heightens that situational awareness. One tends to avoid any situation that wold escalate or put one's life in any kind of danger when carrying.

I am the same way. I sometimes think I was a mobster in another life because I can not stand to have my back against the door. I prefer to sit with my back against the wall and in a seat where I can get up and get out quickly if I need to.

 

[oldsarge]

The concealed carry issue has been discussed on other forums. Would you take a shot in a smoke filled dark room with 100's of people scurrying around? (I would if I had a clear shot but this dude was wearing enough body armor to stop most concealed carry weapons.) Aurora as well as Denver and the rest of the Denver area all have "no concealed carry" laws despite Colorado issueing them. The theater also had a gun ban sign on the door, so any citizen interaction to this guy would have resulted in as much trouble as he is in.

I'm all for concealed carry. But not every situation is resolved with a gun. This guy walked among people firing, at some point in time his back is turned to a lot of people. This is where people need to be aware of fighting skills to take someone down. This guy was loaded down with body armor 4 weapons with ammo and a gas mask which limits visibility. He's not as agile as he may seem. Isn't this what happened to the terrorist that took over one of the flights on 9-11? People massed up and overwhelmed the attackers. There have been several flights since where passengers took the lead and subdued passengers who started trouble.

I'm not criticizing those who survived the attack for not acting out, no one knows how they will react in a situation like this. There may have been people there who were looking for an opportunity act but the opportunity never presented itself. But it's something to think about. Lorax talks about situational awareness, it's a very important part of our daily lives in today's world.

 

[CozInCowtown]

Unfortunately he chose his target audiance well, a theatre generally has one entrance and an emergency exit that he blocked I understand. With a theatre full of people and the exit being a choke point nobody could get out quickly except those directly next to the door. With theconfusion caused by the smoke bomb and shooting there was probably a stampede of people with no where to go, like shooting fish in a barrel literally.
Even if there had been a CHL in the group the chance of getting a shot off along with the ******* wearing body armour nobody would have had much of an improved chance of survival.
Public execution of the guilty is not a bad thing IMO, definately does not deserve being only a just a footnote on the daily news.
JMO,
DC

 

[Lorax]

Unfortunately he chose his target audiance well, a theatre generally has one entrance and an emergency exit that he blocked I understand. With a theatre full of people and the exit being a choke point nobody could get out quickly except those directly next to the door. With theconfusion caused by the smoke bomb and shooting there was probably a stampede of people with no where to go, like shooting fish in a barrel literally.
Even if there had been a CHL in the group the chance of getting a shot off along with the ******* wearing body armour nobody would have had much of an improved chance of survival.
Public execution of the guilty is not a bad thing IMO, definately does not deserve being only a just a footnote on the daily news.
JMO,
DC

I have to agree with you. As I posted before about seeing first hand what kind of panic smoke has in a theater, I couldn't imagine the exponential magnitude of panic created in that scene in Aurora with the addition of gas and gunfire.
It's so hard to know for sure, and I'm sure we never will know how a CC permit holder, or even a few would have altered the outcome (good or bad) in such a situation.
The body armor used by the attacker gave him the additional advantage, but a few hits would disorient as it would still hurt like hell. Maybe even put him down long enough to restrain him. Like I said, there are so many variables and nobody will ever know how any scenario would have ever played out. Everything from this point forward after this terrible act is sheer speculation.

This savage set up on these people really well, making sure there would be a massacre with his preparations. He knew exactly what he was doing every step of the way. Something this calculated earns someone a special place in hell.