ppine
Forester
What distance constitutues a long shot on a deer-sized animal with a modern bolt-action rifle with a scope?
What is a Long Shot on a Deer?
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wvbreamfisherman
Active Member
With my shooting ability, I'd be very reluctant to shoot much over 200-250 yards. I'd prefer to stay within 200. Others who are better shots my feel differently.
Lamebeaver
New Member
I have my rifle sighted in for 200 yards. I'd feel comfortable taking a standing shot out to 300 from a prone or sitting position.
By standing, I mean the animal standing, not me...
By standing, I mean the animal standing, not me...
Pathfinder1
Well-Known Member
Hi...
With open sights, I would guess that 300 yards would be a good starter.
With a scope...?...if the Military is an example...a mile and a half...!!
With open sights, I would guess that 300 yards would be a good starter.
With a scope...?...if the Military is an example...a mile and a half...!!
ppine
Forester
I think it would be hard to even find a target at those ranges. Very few people can hit anything at 300 yards with iron sights. We are not talking about the military. We are talking about people on this forum shooting at a living animal.
I say with practice, a lot of practice 200 yards might be doable with iron sights. For the average person with a scope 400 yards or so is doable. With a scope with turrets on it calibrated for a specific caliber , and time to calculate wind speed, angle etc. some hunters have been successful at 600 -1000 yards.
Professional snipers are a whole different ballgame.
What is the longest shot anyone has made on a deer? My own best is only about 250 yards. My Dad made the shot of his life on a huge mule deer at 415 yards.
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oldsarge
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It all depends on the level of training. There's no reason a person can't take a sporting rifle and achieve long range shots.
Basic rifle skills apply to all, civilian or military. Maybe most civilians don't have access to good ranges where they can train to reach those distances. I had hunters tell me they would never take a shot over 250 yards because the further away the animal is, the harder is will be to track if you only wound it. Closing the distance of 300 or 400 yards to reach the point where the animal was and then start to track, gives the animal more time to flee. If the animal isn't wounded that seriously you may never find it. Now we have a animal suffering.
what does it say at the bottom of Dinosaurs post " A man's got to know his limitations". A responsible hunter won't chance not getting a clean kill.
Just for the record, there's far more to being a sniper than just being able to shoot. Shooting long ranges doesn't make one a sniper. It make you a marksman! Something all hunters should strive for.
Basic rifle skills apply to all, civilian or military. Maybe most civilians don't have access to good ranges where they can train to reach those distances. I had hunters tell me they would never take a shot over 250 yards because the further away the animal is, the harder is will be to track if you only wound it. Closing the distance of 300 or 400 yards to reach the point where the animal was and then start to track, gives the animal more time to flee. If the animal isn't wounded that seriously you may never find it. Now we have a animal suffering.
what does it say at the bottom of Dinosaurs post " A man's got to know his limitations". A responsible hunter won't chance not getting a clean kill.
Just for the record, there's far more to being a sniper than just being able to shoot. Shooting long ranges doesn't make one a sniper. It make you a marksman! Something all hunters should strive for.
I agree with Ppine. Unless you have excessive training and/or experience, 200 yards is a long shot, even with a scope. With an '06 180 gr bullet, you can get up to 27 inches of winddrift and sighted 0 at 200 yards, 54 inches of drop at 500 yards. Those variations make "kentucky windage" near impossible.
For those that watch the military channel about the snipers, remember, they are the pick of the litter and about 2/3 wash out before the course is over. When you start talking mile 5000-7000 yard shots they are using Barrett;s 50 bmg, or .410 barretts. Just a little overkill for the typical deer hunter, not to mention the $8-10,000 price tag for those fancy set-ups. Even with the Lapua's they try not to go over 800 yards.
I have made some long shots in my day and will be the first to admit the luck involved. Us average hunters with typical off the shelf equipment just can't make those long shots on a daily basis. Again, over 200 yards, 4 out of 5 shots will be a miss. Anything more than that is crap house luck.
For those that watch the military channel about the snipers, remember, they are the pick of the litter and about 2/3 wash out before the course is over. When you start talking mile 5000-7000 yard shots they are using Barrett;s 50 bmg, or .410 barretts. Just a little overkill for the typical deer hunter, not to mention the $8-10,000 price tag for those fancy set-ups. Even with the Lapua's they try not to go over 800 yards.
I have made some long shots in my day and will be the first to admit the luck involved. Us average hunters with typical off the shelf equipment just can't make those long shots on a daily basis. Again, over 200 yards, 4 out of 5 shots will be a miss. Anything more than that is crap house luck.
Judy Ann
Active Member
For me...150 yards from a stand at dusk. Once was enough!
CozInCowtown
Moderator
My limit is about 250 yards, I can hit accuratley beyond that but the bullet has lost so much energy getting there I am not sure of an ethical kill.
JMO,
DC
JMO,
DC
oldsarge
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5000-7000 yards. Haven't seen that one done yet with a rifle. I wouldn't believe everything I see on TV either. Military channel or not.
200 yards is not far at all. Basic Army trainees are taught to reach out to 350 meters with open sights. Some take longer than others to achieve this, but it's part of weapons qualification. Marine Corps trains out to 500 meters. these are all riflemen and not trained snipers.
I wouldn't say your long shots were lucky Grandpa. Evidently your posses the skills and made the shot. Your off the shelf name brand equipment is far better than a basic rifleman's M16, which doesn't pack a punch at long ranges at all. A 30.06 is way more capable than what you give it credit for.
The question in this thread was "What distance constitutues a long shot on a deer-sized animal with a modern bolt-action rifle with a scope?" Not at what distance can the average person shoot a deer? Then we need to take into consideration, windage, bullet drop, temperature, bullet weight, terrain and level of training.
I think CozInCowtown made a great point. It backs up what I said earlier.
ppine
Forester
As long as we are at it, I would mention to all would be antelope hunters to carefully consider long shots on these critters. They live in windy country and tend to get shot at from long distances that many people are not comfortable with. As a consequence there are a lot of wounded and limping antelope walking around in WY after the rifle season. Many ranchers spend time putting them out of their misery. If you can't dope windage, please don't shoot over 250-300 yards, and less when the wind is up.
A range finder is becoming common with hunters these days, although I have never used one, there is no doubt they are helpful. If you are going to shoot at ranges greater than 300 yards, bring a hand-held anemometer to measure wind and a chart to calculate your hold. The new style scopes with turrets (from the military) can help to find the right bullet path.
A range finder is becoming common with hunters these days, although I have never used one, there is no doubt they are helpful. If you are going to shoot at ranges greater than 300 yards, bring a hand-held anemometer to measure wind and a chart to calculate your hold. The new style scopes with turrets (from the military) can help to find the right bullet path.
oldsarge
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Many civilian hunting scopes now have stadia lines or mil dots to help you along. Unless you are highly trained in the use of a scope with external reticle adjustments (turrets) you may be better off just using mil dots or stadia lines. I've seem scopes designed just for hunting big game with some pretty nice reticles. If you are not aware of mil dots, check out this site How Mil-Dot and Ballistic Reticle Riflescopes Work
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ppine
Forester
Oldarge,
How can you account for windrift with only lines or dots? My brother shot at a huge antelpe in Wyo at about 325 yards. His elevation was great but the wind moved his bullet sideways and he killed a fawn standing next to it. These type experiences are not easily forgotten.
How can you account for windrift with only lines or dots? My brother shot at a huge antelpe in Wyo at about 325 yards. His elevation was great but the wind moved his bullet sideways and he killed a fawn standing next to it. These type experiences are not easily forgotten.
oldsarge
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How Mil-Dot and Ballistic Reticle Riflescopes Work
Wind drift can be adjusted by knowing the full or half value cross wind. This is obtained by reading the wind, not only at you firing position but down range too. There are formulas for determining wind speed by watching grass, trees and leaves. It take a lot of practice.
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CozInCowtown
Moderator
Simple, lots of practice at the range and experiance in the field would have prevented this.
Bad call on your brothers part IMO. 325 is not that far of a distance for any compitant rifleman.
Like most automobile accidents that are not easily forgotten, it should have never happened in the first place.
I can hit a pie plate at 800 yards on a windy afternoon with my 45-120 Sharps reproduction but that I will not take a hunting shot at that range.
JMO
DC
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oldsarge
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Thank you Brother!
Okay guys, an 8"x 16" target that represents the critical target area on a deer, no bench rest or sand bags, just standing there and taking a shot, by an average hunter, in average fall weather.
Hey, I qualified expert with both M14 and M16, was on university small bore rifle team, AA trap shooter, and shoot long range rifle competition. Competion shooting, sniper training with a bipod in prone position are all just fine but I call BS on standing off hand and hitting that 8" x 16" target consistantly over 200 yards.
So here is the deal, Since both of you long range proponents seem like my kind of people to begin with, y'all come to Idaho as my guest. Bring your favorite piece and if you can hit that 8 x 16 target at 250 yards offhand 3 out of 5 shots, y'all can stay and hunt Idaho mule deer and I'll feed you beefsteak during the season. But if you can't then you owe me a big apology.
And while your here, we can go down to Thompsons long range club and you can show me just how good you really are at 800, 1000, and 1200 yards. But no 50 BMG's:tinysmile_twink_t2:. They hurt his targets
Hey, I qualified expert with both M14 and M16, was on university small bore rifle team, AA trap shooter, and shoot long range rifle competition. Competion shooting, sniper training with a bipod in prone position are all just fine but I call BS on standing off hand and hitting that 8" x 16" target consistantly over 200 yards.
So here is the deal, Since both of you long range proponents seem like my kind of people to begin with, y'all come to Idaho as my guest. Bring your favorite piece and if you can hit that 8 x 16 target at 250 yards offhand 3 out of 5 shots, y'all can stay and hunt Idaho mule deer and I'll feed you beefsteak during the season. But if you can't then you owe me a big apology.
And while your here, we can go down to Thompsons long range club and you can show me just how good you really are at 800, 1000, and 1200 yards. But no 50 BMG's:tinysmile_twink_t2:. They hurt his targets
oldsarge
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Grandpa, I never said off hand. If a person is not trying to take their best shot, they shouldn't be hunting. Anyone who try's long shot's not stabilized is just taking chances. I agree, BS! Standing off hand shooting at long ranges is not something I'd do. As of right now I don't own a long range gun. But if I do pick one up, I'll take you up on your offer. Not so much for the competition but the camaraderie and fellowship.
I go back to what I said before, it's all about the training. If someone spends enough time firing and learning his weapon and ammo. He will be proficient.
I am in no way criticizing anyone who doesn't take long shots. Personally I feel that you should be as close as possible to achieve a clean kill.
I go back to what I said before, it's all about the training. If someone spends enough time firing and learning his weapon and ammo. He will be proficient.
I am in no way criticizing anyone who doesn't take long shots. Personally I feel that you should be as close as possible to achieve a clean kill.